Dorking Wandering
The Dorking Wanderers FC Fans Forum
What we have learned so far:
- Take Profit Trader, a leading trading education and funding business have made an investment in DWFC (bought shares);
- The consortium will be represented in the UK by Daryl Cumberland, who will work closely with the club’s Senior Committee;
- Entrepreneur James Sixsmith, a former professional ice hockey player is founder and CEO of Take Profit Trader.
Daryl was at the Weston away game on the last day of the regular season, and these are apparently serious investors, who are keen on improving stadium infrastructure amongst their plans.
Can anyone shed any further light on the scale of their plans, their strategy or investment priorities at the club? Clubs at this level can be a money pit if you aren't careful!
Obviously the club has genuine ambitions to reach the EFL one day, there are a lot of stages to achieve such a big achievement as that, on and off the field. We've seen Crawley, Sutton United and now Bromley do that over recent years, but it takes a huge effort to do.
"Why would I leave to join a League Two club? We're going there anyway!" - Marc White
They could go just to each side of the Stonegate Stand if the north side was going to be seriously improved. They have them set apart at a few grounds, Aveley springs to mind.
Or just keep them where they are but sink them down a little bit. Like at Concord.
"Why would I leave to join a League Two club? We're going there anyway!" - Marc White
I assume we'll get a weekly update from Marc at some point soon where he can shed some more light
Marc just said on Twitter that announcement with more details to be made at 6PM tonight.
Sounds like these guys are different to previously mentioned. Talked about as co-owners so guess have bought significant shareholding. Also invest in Johnstone Burgh FC in Scotland and had previous football investment.
The videos of Frank and Debra are now online. Seem like genuine people. Very odd they haven't even been to a game of ours yet but that will come soon no doubt.
Must be a large investment for the club to have 3 people go over to the US to seal it. I never quite understand how a 6th tier club can be a sound investment, but perhaps for some high net worth people an investment is about more than the bottom line, it's as much of an investment in a journey.
A google of their names brings up that they also invested in a Scottish club last year, but they haven't made any secret that they've looked around a fair bit for a club to properly invest in. And I guess there must be good money in healthcare insurance in the US!
Or maybe they are just philanthropists sent to us by some utter miracle?!!
I really hope that with them involved, and also the Daryl Cumberland investment recently, that the club really starts to meet its Meadowbank stadium objectives soon, as it can't get much better than this now!
"Why would I leave to join a League Two club? We're going there anyway!" - Marc White
If the new co-owners own more than 25% this will need to be recorded on Companies House, so be interesting to see if there is any changes posted in the near future.
The annual companies house document runs to nearly 40 pages and has people with even 1 single share listed (yet wierdly not myself or my wife for some reason)
"Why would I leave to join a League Two club? We're going there anyway!" - Marc White
No idea of amount of investment but as others have said, it must be pretty decent. Great work from Marc and the team to bring in more serious people from US. An opportunity hopefully to get the ground up to scratch and then the squad reinforced.
Also pleased that there will be a Fans Forum meeting in August - good chance to get a better sense of how the plans are shaping up for the season on and off the pitch.
Agree with a lot of this DE.
Welcome Frank and Debra. Some gaff you have got!
Really intrigued to know what motivated them and what they are hoping to get out of this, or if it’s simply just for the journey and the ride as you say. Punting on a non league football club in a foreign country is certainly left field.
That being said, Welcome to Wrexham has undoubtedly enticed a fair few Americans who have been taken by the rags to riches story of the English football pyramid and want a piece of it. That, I understand.
Obviously it seems a large enough investment for Marc to have made the trip. Yet, I hope more details are to come out as there are a few crucial bits missing from the press release..
- What percentage of the club do Frank and Debra now own?
- Will existing shareholders be diluted?
- How much money is actually involved? Is this a one off investment or is further funding committed in future?
- Will the investment be ring fenced for infrastructure improvements and, if so, which projects? Or will it simply contribute towards the day to day running of the football club?
- Will they have influence on decisions at board level?
Hopefully these become clearer in time, but it does seem positive that the club is attracting overseas investment.
Zooming out, I do think that Marc has concluded Dorking has reached the point where taking the club to the next level has exceeded what he can realistically fund and manage alone. If that is the case, I’d be interested to understand what their involvement will look like in practice. The announcement talks about them being actively involved in the day to day development of the club, but realistically, living in New Jersey, how much can they actually do from afar beyond providing funding and strategic input?
Just watched the 15minute interview they’ve done, really exciting news. Marc mentioned towards the end the interview about catching other clubs in terms of infrastructure and the ground ownership which is now becoming “good news”
Baggy - yes agree, it's really exciting to see Marc so positive about the inward investment, it must be very significant.
It really helps that he can reference the likes of Wrexham, Stockport, Bromley etc as to what could be possible with the right things in place.
I do believe that DW could be a comfortable NL (step 1) side with the right infrastructure in place, and that would be very exciting for the town, the young people of the area who really buy into supporting their local club and the whole prestige of the town name being known nationally because of the club.
The Fans Forum is also a great thing - not because any of us want to ask difficult questions or seek answers to confidential stuff like bottom line numbers or anything like that, but because we want to understand more about what this means and what the 1 year, 2 year and 5 year vision looks like. What are the off field objectives as much as anything - the buildings, the pitch, the stands, the operating lease and so on. Membership arrangements, away accommodation, the number of fans we regularly take away etc. I see the owner at Farnham doing this sort of thing regularly and it never hurts to positively sell the ambition and the vision to the core fans who in turn spread the positivity throughout the wider support.
Gary - yes, Marc talked about other teams having a 100 year head start on us. Those clubs have more developed grounds. For a start Meadowbank was redesigned primarily for the old Dorking FC who were a much smaller outfit, and also designed more as a community sports hub. It is difficult to balance that with an ambitious club who want to be in step 1 and eventually (like Sutton and Bromley did) reach the EFL. It's never just about winning on the pitch it is also about facilities that go hand in hand with the level, more turnstiles, toilets, bars, covered viewing, tiered standing, seats and so on. Clubs can only apply for ground improvement funding every 5 years, so we are behind even the step 3 Eastbourne Borough's and Havant and Waterlooville's on that front.
Matty - I think the questions (about the specific financials) you list won't be answered to the ordinary fans, but for good reasons, and that is fair enough. But the club can share what they hope to do with the investments. The shares that ordinary fans bought are such a .001% each that I always said those purchases should have been treated as gifts to the club and symbolic shareholdings (ie for the pride of being an owner). There are rumours amongst fans groups and fan whatsapps that the Sixsmith investment runs into a few millions for example (which I hope is right!)
I don't agree with Marc reaching a point where he can't take it further, Marc is the energy behind most things at the club. I look at the club when I started supporting and there was largely Marc doing the work of 5 people. There was no Lisa bringing in sponsorships, no Jon Bines (a hugely successful businessman in his own right) and no investors other than Marc, who also by the way has continued to run his own business alongside everything else.
But every pair of hands that does come into the club, every Alan Gout running the Secretary work, Jason Rabbetts or Stephen Morgan running ground improvements all takes some weight off Marc's overloaded shoulders, and pushes things forwards. The club now is a big, big operation and will likely only get bigger too.
"Why would I leave to join a League Two club? We're going there anyway!" - Marc White
This investment must be quite substantial as they are being referred to as Co-Owners whereas the Sixsmith/Take Proft group weren't. I guess Marc has sold a reasonable amount of his shares to Frank and Debbie. Will be interesting to see what these 2 new investments brings in terms of improvements to the squad and facilities.
Didn't pick up about a Fans Forum. Will be good to have one. When was the last one?
We didn't have a fans forum at all last season, the previous one would have been at the start of 24/25 which I think was for 'owners' (ie people who'd bought shares. They typically fill the lounge with 30-40 people so aren't enormous events, but to the supporters who go to them they are really interesting and useful.
The timing of it in August was interesting too, strange to not just get it done during pre-season and set out your ambitions ahead of it all starting properly.
Debra and Frank must be really sold on the whole Wrexham dream, then looked around at likely clubs in the best position to climb a bit.
If I have millions to invest, I'd want something closer to home, probably something in or near my own community (or at least in the same timezone!), but I am not complaining one bit, and they are very welcome. I have always said Marc is marmite and to those of us who get it, and appreciate what he is doing then we understand how the journey we are on is so compelling!
"Why would I leave to join a League Two club? We're going there anyway!" - Marc White
@dorking-eagle @mattywanderer - Just to add - I can confirm there is no share dilution, these are Marc's shares he's releasing - and that they will become the second biggest owner following this investment.
Also, just spoke to Marc and he's asked me to make it clear that this is so much more than just an investment, these are people that will be benefactors too, all for the love of the game and DWFC, so it really is very positive and it's definately not a question of Marc taking it as far as he can.
This will all massively help provide much needed funds to allow us to keep moving forward on and off the pitch - allowing big infrastructure improvements at both Meadowbank and Westhumble.
There will also be a Q and A session with Frank and Debra at some point in the near future.
Really exciting stuff.
Great stuff AdeB. If they are excited for the journey and want to help our club welcome on board!
Just to clarify I wasn’t for one minute suggesting Marc needed to hand over the reins, just he probably understands he needs further investment and other people on board to take the club to the next level.
If I have millions to invest, I'd want something closer to home
Indeed. However, they are currently searching for property in the Dorking area...
